Drastically Reducing File Size

[Tosen]

So many of you know that Zandronum supports music changes from website paths, such as .mp3 files stored on a website. This is easily achieved with something such as SetMusic("http://www.blahblah.com/sdfgdfg.mp3");.

I think it would be cool to see a website like wadhost that worked specifically for uploading and storing music, that way a wad wouldn't have to be cluttered with megabytes upon megabytes of useless music, when it could all be stored on a data site, then called from later.

What do you think?

[Qent]

Ehh, I really don't want Zandronum downloading stuff while I'm playing. :/

[Sodaholic486]

A helpful tip I learned from Gez: only use Doom format graphics when you use a zip or PK3 format (not WAD) if the graphic in question has any transparency in it and if it was made in the target IWAD's or mod's palette. Transparency doesn't even exist in the Doom graphics format, only the ability to use custom image shapes besides rectangles for image borders. When compressed in a zip based format, this allows Doom format graphics to be smaller than even a fully optimized 8-bit PNG.

[Bloax]

Good luck getting anything even remotely close to a very nicely paletted PNG, however.

Also, if we're talking about the Doom palette - it's very badly made and even directly artistically hazardous.

[Ijon Tichy]

u guize and your misleading topic titles

anyway i'd support this, considering i have music off anyway and this would save me 40mb of bullshit i'll never listen to (because voivod fuck yeah)

[Dusk]

I don't, just because my connection is pretty shit and I'd rather listen to music while playing than waiting for music while playing.

Also, half (if not the main) reason behind filesize reducing is to make you have less to download. Making people download the music while playing sorta defeats the point...

[Medicris]

He's got a pretty strong point there. You're not avoiding that download of the extra 40MB, you're just delaying it. I'd imagine it would introduce some security and trolling vulnerabilities too.

Frankly I'd rather not play in silence while pinging 280 for the first X minutes of every map, since I'm probably downloading 320kbps mp3s in the background.

But I agree, badly made, uncompresssed wads can be a headache.

[infurnus]

If you ever do the website thing, that's bad design.
Let's ignore that for a moment.. if you decide to do that instead of including the resources, at least make a patched version that includes the stuff you need in the event that the website goes away or removes the content due to bandwidth issues. (Please ask people permission before using their webspace for this, or read the usage terms of the website)

[Watermelon]

A helpful tip I learned from Gez: only use Doom format graphics when you use a zip or PK3 format (not WAD) if the graphic in question has any transparency in it and if it was made in the target IWAD's or mod's palette. Transparency doesn't even exist in the Doom graphics format, only the ability to use custom image shapes besides rectangles for image borders. When compressed in a zip based format, this allows Doom format graphics to be smaller than even a fully optimized 8-bit PNG.

Does converting to doom palette preserve the true color? Just because that'd make OpenGL look shitier (since most people on ST/Zandronum use OpenGL outside of CTF)

[Minigunner]

Speaking of "Drastically reducing file size":
- Use OGG Vorbis audio, not MP3's. OGG is very compressible with minimal loss. Also, I would recommend downsampling the audio to 32000Hz, 16-bit (Mono for world sounds), as the loss of quality is barely audible, but the reduction in filesize is more noticable.
- Abuse the hell out of TEXTURES. It is very flexible, and since the graphics are generated in-game, the only space used is the text you put in. Definitely recommended for simple recolors, flipped/rotated textures, or copy-pastes.
- As Sodaholic said, as long as the image is in the Doom palette and the mod is a PK3/ZIP, convert to DPF (Doom Patch Format), as it is more compressible.
- And of course, remove unused and duplicate entries.

[Bloax]

- Use OGG Vorbis audio, not MP3's. OGG is very compressible with minimal loss.

On that topic, there's a (really) fast command-line version of AoTuV OGG here. (Source)
Use something like -q 0.85-1.33, though make sure to listen to them and compare them to the original track.

Because you may find that some important pieces of sound have been cut off, many of which could be saved by upping that quality a bit.

Unless of course the entire track is high frequencies, like this thing. (I think it requires a -q of like, 2.5 or something.)

Also, I would recommend downsampling the audio to 32000Hz, 16-bit (Mono for world sounds), as the loss of quality is barely audible, but the reduction in filesize is more noticable.

8-Bit sounds just fine to me, but I may be totally wrong.
And if you're going to downsample, I'd recommend doing so without antialiasing. (Aliased downsampling, wee!)

You can do that in Wavosaur, and it's portable and stuff, so yeah.
As for why, usually antialiased downsampling makes everything really muffled, and then you'd be better off not doing that.

Depends on whether the source is upsampled already with non-aliased interpolation, however. (If it is, aliased downsampling can help a bit.)

I MAY BE TOTALLY WRONG HOWEVER, HAHA.

- As Sodaholic said, as long as the image is in the Doom palette and the mod is a PK3/ZIP, convert to DPF (Doom Patch Format), as it is more compressible.

As I've more or less pointed out already, UNLESS it's in the Doom palette, it's pretty much madness to follow this advice.

[ALIENwolve]

But wouldn't this cause issue for completely offline play and result in constantly downloading data instead of just once?

[Tosen]

Considering everyone thinks that the song would be slow to download (Which you must have a TERRIBLE internet for, although many people do play Doom for a reason I guess) I can conduct a test server later and see what the results are.

I tried this myself and it didnt lag at all, and the music started instantly, but maybe thats just me.

---

Result: I tested it with 2 test Subjects.
Test Subject1 : (Location America) Music changed within 1 to 2 secs
Test Subject2: (Location Saudi Arabia) Screen froze for 3 seconds, then the music changed. About 1 second later the server crashed.

I tested it twice, and maybe Zandronum is just unstable or something, but the music changing online from another website crashed the server with a "Fatal Error" message. Overall I would say it doesn't lag as bad as others think it does, but instead the problem comes in with the actual port itself I suppose.

[Watermelon]

This is cool. Streaming data would be quite interesting.

I hope an idea like this goes further, it could even be used to stream input into the game itself (like variables, game data...etc), which open up a whole new realm of possibilities.

[Medicris]

Considering everyone thinks that the song would be slow to download (Which you must have a TERRIBLE internet for, although many people do play Doom for a reason I guess) I can conduct a test server later and see what the results are.

I was mostly just referring to low-grade hosters, not individual internet speed. High-speed internet isn't available in every country.

Also, I'm not certain wadhost would enjoy collecting what's probably copyrighted music after what happened earlier.