This engine has been more than just a Doom source port for a long time. It is disappointing you can't see it as more than that.Sean wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 2:03 pmHave I stumbled into some alternate reality? Zandronum is a Doom source port and always has been. It's not a general-purpose commercial game engine as this thread has suddenly decided it is, and therefore it doesn't function or get marketed as such because we were never developing it under that pretense! If you'd like it to be, that's one thing - but it's not that, and it never has been! That's why.
What do you exactly expect from somebody who uses the engine? Am I supposed to contribute to the code or throw money at something to support the engine? You have somebody with 54.3k wishlists willing to support Zandronum despite the fact that it probably hurt their game more than it benefits them, but this does not seem to give you any sort of indication that perhaps we should consider this. Are we still blinded by past controversies?Sean wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 2:03 pmThere's apparently someone! But their "will to support the engine" stopped dead at actually having to support the engine. Oh well.Catastrophe wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 6:18 amSgt. Mark IV, the creator of Brutal Doom, is literally building his own indie shooter and has publicly said he wanted to ship it with Zandronum pre-packaged, but legally can’t. He spells it out here. This is someone with the clout, the audience, and the will to support the engine and even he has to walk away.
This expose you are against is the literal thing Zandronum needs. Look at GZDoom with its continued development which gives people reason to use it and post about it. There are people like Nash actively posting news about the engine and about the things that can be done. People like TheMisterCat who post content of their mods or proof of concepts, showing how much GZDoom is capable of doing. We have a dead Youtube channel and a Mastodon/Bluesky account which occasionally posts announcements. Things like this should snowball with more players leading to more contribution and more of a presence.
So how do I donate? Zandronum has absolutely no way of receiving donations. TSPG also has optional donations with benefits and it has never occurred to anybody to do this for Zandronum.
I think this would be a good idea. Obviously I am very much able to already do this considering I can join the existing meetings, but there are plenty of people who would want to voice their opinion but are not able to since Torr is not available at all. Is there a reason why we can't use Discord and possibly provide a separate channel for a select group?]]>Sean wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 8:09 pmMy first suggestion is that dev meetings become more public in some way. Clearly people have a desire to write novellas about the problems, so they may as well do it in front of the people who can actually take on board these thoughts, and maybe it'll even result in suggestions being made that lead to decisions, or even actually material contributions.
This engine has been more than just a Doom source port for a long time. It is disappointing you can't see it as more than that.Sean wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 2:03 pmHave I stumbled into some alternate reality? Zandronum is a Doom source port and always has been. It's not a general-purpose commercial game engine as this thread has suddenly decided it is, and therefore it doesn't function or get marketed as such because we were never developing it under that pretense! If you'd like it to be, that's one thing - but it's not that, and it never has been! That's why.
What do you exactly expect from somebody who uses the engine? Am I supposed to contribute to the code or throw money at something to support the engine? You have somebody with 54.3k wishlists willing to support Zandronum despite the fact that it probably hurt their game more than it benefits them, but this does not seem to give you any sort of indication that perhaps we should consider this. Are we still blinded by past controversies?Sean wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 2:03 pmThere's apparently someone! But their "will to support the engine" stopped dead at actually having to support the engine. Oh well.Catastrophe wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 6:18 amSgt. Mark IV, the creator of Brutal Doom, is literally building his own indie shooter and has publicly said he wanted to ship it with Zandronum pre-packaged, but legally can’t. He spells it out here. This is someone with the clout, the audience, and the will to support the engine and even he has to walk away.
This expose you are against is the literal thing Zandronum needs. Look at GZDoom with its continued development which gives people reason to use it and post about it. There are people like Nash actively posting news about the engine and about the things that can be done. People like TheMisterCat who post content of their mods or proof of concepts, showing how much GZDoom is capable of doing. We have a dead Youtube channel and a Mastodon/Bluesky account which occasionally posts announcements. Things like this should snowball with more players leading to more contribution and more of a presence.
So how do I donate? Zandronum has absolutely no way of receiving donations. TSPG also has optional donations with benefits and it has never occurred to anybody to do this for Zandronum.
I think this would be a good idea. Obviously I am very much able to already do this considering I can join the existing meetings, but there are plenty of people who would want to voice their opinion but are not able to since Torr is not available at all. Is there a reason why we can't use Discord and possibly provide a separate channel for a select group?]]>Sean wrote: ↑Tue Jun 03, 2025 8:09 pmMy first suggestion is that dev meetings become more public in some way. Clearly people have a desire to write novellas about the problems, so they may as well do it in front of the people who can actually take on board these thoughts, and maybe it'll even result in suggestions being made that lead to decisions, or even actually material contributions.
From what I recall, that was done to avoid allowing people to fall under the assumption that donating to Zandronum would lead to faster development time. I tend to slightly agree with this argument because I've seen random people in the Zan discord asking if they could help development by giving money. However, one other consequence of having open donations is that staff/admin moneybag positions become trivialized and, with the right factors, downright unnecessary. I don't know what TSPG's donations look like and I'm not going to prod it out of them either, because even if it's minimal, that minimal amount helps. It's a shame we'll never really know because too much time has passed with this regulation in place and many people who would have been a contributor have disappeared in the last decade. All as designed.Fused wrote:So how do I donate? Zandronum has absolutely no way of receiving donations. TSPG also has optional donations with benefits and it has never occurred to anybody to do this for Zandronum.
]]>Distant Voices wrote:one shouldn't be saying "i invested x amount into zan" because unless that money is supposed to grow, it's not an investment, it's an expense
From what I recall, that was done to avoid allowing people to fall under the assumption that donating to Zandronum would lead to faster development time. I tend to slightly agree with this argument because I've seen random people in the Zan discord asking if they could help development by giving money. However, one other consequence of having open donations is that staff/admin moneybag positions become trivialized and, with the right factors, downright unnecessary. I don't know what TSPG's donations look like and I'm not going to prod it out of them either, because even if it's minimal, that minimal amount helps. It's a shame we'll never really know because too much time has passed with this regulation in place and many people who would have been a contributor have disappeared in the last decade. All as designed.Fused wrote:So how do I donate? Zandronum has absolutely no way of receiving donations. TSPG also has optional donations with benefits and it has never occurred to anybody to do this for Zandronum.
]]>Distant Voices wrote:one shouldn't be saying "i invested x amount into zan" because unless that money is supposed to grow, it's not an investment, it's an expense