[WIP] Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#421

Post by Doomenator » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:06 am

complex-lca-sounds.pk3

So, I didn't wait and decided to convert himself. Almost all the sounds in the same format, including the original complex. Can be used as an addon or just replace all the sounds in LCA. May need to rework some of the individual sounds, but in general I triples.
P.S. Some sounds different from the original.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#422

Post by Metal_Spaghetti » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:11 am

spartanoo2 wrote:im not like very much the new camera mid the explosive minigun i see very rare
Why? :gasp:

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#423

Post by Legendary » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:06 pm

LittleMermaid wrote:Had the same thing with demonic rune, you lose the rune (though keep resistance), then couldn't pickup another rune.

The other main problem I noticed is players keeping all their weapons after dying (zan3 issue?).

Side notes: The continuous nerfing of monsters seems to have made the game too easy for me. the new LMG is too OP and the size of the magazines (76 rounds?) is ridiculous
The Leg Demon Rune? What do you mean? I don't see how this is just now popping up because I didn't change it. Also the players keeping their weapons is a Zandronum 3.0 issue. As for the nerfing, what else am I supposed to do? I get all these people complaining about shit then when I nerf the stuff they complain about it gets to be too easy? A LMG in real life has around 76 or more rounds which isn't ridiculous at all. I will not be changing the LMG's magazine size. As for the weapon it isn't too op, It's supposed to be better than the ASG because the monster is in a higher spawner. The accuracy is terrible which makes up for Its damage.
Doomenator wrote:complex-lca-sounds.pk3

So, I didn't wait and decided to convert himself. Almost all the sounds in the same format, including the original complex. Can be used as an addon or just replace all the sounds in LCA. May need to rework some of the individual sounds, but in general I triples.
P.S. Some sounds different from the original.
Thanks man, saves me some work.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#424

Post by Blast98 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:17 pm

Now for those people who keep complaining what monster is too easy, please don't because the most of the monsters in LCA are already so powerful especially the Legendary forms of the monsters. The Legendary Redeemer needed to be nerfed because it was too overpowered. Same went for the Legendary Baby Sentient.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#425

Post by Legendary » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:43 pm

Blast88 wrote:Now for those people who keep complaining what monster is too easy, please don't because the most of the monsters in LCA are already so powerful especially the Legendary forms of the monsters. The Legendary Redeemer needed to be nerfed because it was too overpowered. Same went for the Legendary Baby Sentient.
My boy! But... I can kind of see why they say It's too easy. Once you get the Leg Rune literally nothing stands a chance. I've done a little thinking and I've come to the conclusion that the Rune is the main cause of everything being too easy. Don't worry, I won't remove it. I had an idea where I could lower the 2x damage portion of the rune to around 1.25x or 1.3x damage instead. What do you guys think? I feel like that would make things a lot more balanced.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#426

Post by tarrasqueSorcerer » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:17 pm

I agree with that. I also had an idea to have several runes with separate effects instead of a single one, so the player wouldn't get all the power at once.
Although this might require some more nerfs for stronger legs to keep the game fair.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#427

Post by ThePlamzJoker » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:29 pm

Legendary wrote:I've done a little thinking and I've come to the conclusion that the Rune is the main cause of everything being too easy. Don't worry, I won't remove it. I had an idea where I could lower the 2x damage portion of the rune to around 1.25x or 1.3x damage instead. What do you guys think? I feel like that would make things a lot more balanced.
No. Please don't.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#428

Post by Legendary » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:32 pm

ThePlamzJoker wrote:
Legendary wrote:I've done a little thinking and I've come to the conclusion that the Rune is the main cause of everything being too easy. Don't worry, I won't remove it. I had an idea where I could lower the 2x damage portion of the rune to around 1.25x or 1.3x damage instead. What do you guys think? I feel like that would make things a lot more balanced.
No. Please don't.
So you don't believe that having the Leg Rune makes everything too easy? The main issue is killing things too fast and the cause of that is the 2x damage from the Leg Rune. Also, I see nothing wrong with the Leg Demon Rune, it works perfectly fine when I use it. Once it runs out I am able to pickup another one.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#429

Post by Twinkletwats » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:22 pm

Legendary wrote:
ThePlamzJoker wrote:
Legendary wrote:I've done a little thinking and I've come to the conclusion that the Rune is the main cause of everything being too easy. Don't worry, I won't remove it. I had an idea where I could lower the 2x damage portion of the rune to around 1.25x or 1.3x damage instead. What do you guys think? I feel like that would make things a lot more balanced.
No. Please don't.
So you don't believe that having the Leg Rune makes everything too easy? The main issue is killing things too fast and the cause of that is the 2x damage from the Leg Rune. Also, I see nothing wrong with the Leg Demon Rune, it works perfectly fine when I use it. Once it runs out I am able to pickup another one.
I agree with Joker. Some of the higher tier enemies are super hard to kill even with the legendary rune.
Yeah you can burst through lower tier enemies quickly and easily with legendary weapons, but legendary ammo is also somewhat rare so I feel that it's balanced.
If you were to lower the damage bonus from the legendary rune, I think you'd also have to lower the health of a lot of higher tier enemies along with it. There are enemies that take a crazy amount to kill as it stands even with the legendary rune, to make it even harder would be a little over the top. Also you'd be running out of ammo all the time.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#430

Post by Legendary » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:41 am

Twinkletwats wrote:I agree with Joker. Some of the higher tier enemies are super hard to kill even with the legendary rune.
Yeah you can burst through lower tier enemies quickly and easily with legendary weapons, but legendary ammo is also somewhat rare so I feel that it's balanced.
If you were to lower the damage bonus from the legendary rune, I think you'd also have to lower the health of a lot of higher tier enemies along with it. There are enemies that take a crazy amount to kill as it stands even with the legendary rune, to make it even harder would be a little over the top. Also you'd be running out of ammo all the time.
Ah good point, so far that's 2 to 1. I'm neutral and just trying to get a good understanding of why it wouldn't be beneficial.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#431

Post by Blast98 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:53 am

Legendary wrote:
Blast88 wrote:Now for those people who keep complaining what monster is too easy, please don't because the most of the monsters in LCA are already so powerful especially the Legendary forms of the monsters. The Legendary Redeemer needed to be nerfed because it was too overpowered. Same went for the Legendary Baby Sentient.
My boy! But... I can kind of see why they say It's too easy. Once you get the Leg Rune literally nothing stands a chance. I've done a little thinking and I've come to the conclusion that the Rune is the main cause of everything being too easy. Don't worry, I won't remove it. I had an idea where I could lower the 2x damage portion of the rune to around 1.25x or 1.3x damage instead. What do you guys think? I feel like that would make things a lot more balanced.
I think lowering the damage portion of the Legendary Rune from 2x to 1.3x seems to be a good idea because then the player isn't overpowered when having it.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#432

Post by LittleMermaid » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:08 am

The problem I had with the rune was when using that new sphere, after the sphere runs out you lose your rage bonus (duno about damage) and only keep the rune resistance.

Maybe I was just having good luck with the LMG or something because I was killing things at super long range in 1 or 2 rounds - the accuracy seemed as good as the pistol. The magazine size might be realistic compared to a real weapon but in the game it seems far too large as you can instakill about 50-60 monsters on the same magazine (this was with rune).

I hadn't played LCA without replacer for a longtime before 1.5.9 was released, I think the best solution is to somehow integrate replacer into LCA - short of that I'm not against the idea of dividing the runes into seperate things and/or lowering the 2x damage factor. But nerfing the rune(s) too much would also lower the fun factor I think.

I kinda disagree with the idea that some monsters are super hard to kill, unless we're talking about the leg sentients or true leg cardinal .. these are the only two things I have trouble killing now

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#433

Post by Doomenator » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:54 am

Legendary wrote:Thanks man, saves me some work.
But there is another problem. The sound volume is greatly enhanced if the same sounds played simultaneously.
For example: IceImp around attack, FreezerBehemoth attack, FreezerRifle fire, (SHARDS1B, FROSTY2 sounds). I reset this sounds, but FreezerBehemoth no have some sounds for attack, so it looks silent. Need to fix actors.
If I'm not mistaken this is a very old bug. But the mod makers still duplicate it in the mods.

A temporary solution: I replaced the sound SHARDS1B and made quieter to -12dB.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#434

Post by ForrestMarkX » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:01 pm

Legendary wrote:
ThePlamzJoker wrote:
Legendary wrote:I've done a little thinking and I've come to the conclusion that the Rune is the main cause of everything being too easy. Don't worry, I won't remove it. I had an idea where I could lower the 2x damage portion of the rune to around 1.25x or 1.3x damage instead. What do you guys think? I feel like that would make things a lot more balanced.
No. Please don't.
So you don't believe that having the Leg Rune makes everything too easy? The main issue is killing things too fast and the cause of that is the 2x damage from the Leg Rune. Also, I see nothing wrong with the Leg Demon Rune, it works perfectly fine when I use it. Once it runs out I am able to pickup another one.
Check out Complex LCA Opt, I added a change to the Legendary Rune you can use. Instead of changing the global damagefactor I change the damagefactor of a few certain damagetypes to 1.5x and etc
Doomenator wrote:complex-lca-sounds.pk3

So, I didn't wait and decided to convert himself. Almost all the sounds in the same format, including the original complex. Can be used as an addon or just replace all the sounds in LCA. May need to rework some of the individual sounds, but in general I triples.
P.S. Some sounds different from the original.
Instead of changing the sounds themselves you should use $attenuation and $volume in SNDINFO

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#435

Post by Doomenator » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:25 pm

ForrestMarkX wrote:Instead of changing the sounds themselves you should use $attenuation and $volume in SNDINFO
Too much hassle, let this deals with the creators of the mods. I has solved 95% of problems within 3 minutes, converting all sounds to one format.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#436

Post by ForrestMarkX » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:15 pm

Doomenator wrote:
ForrestMarkX wrote:Instead of changing the sounds themselves you should use $attenuation and $volume in SNDINFO
Too much hassle, let this deals with the creators of the mods. I has solved 95% of problems within 3 minutes, converting all sounds to one format.
Get me a list of the sounds that are messed up and I'll do it then

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#437

Post by Legendary » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:33 pm

LittleMermaid wrote:The problem I had with the rune was when using that new sphere, after the sphere runs out you lose your rage bonus (duno about damage) and only keep the rune resistance.

Maybe I was just having good luck with the LMG or something because I was killing things at super long range in 1 or 2 rounds - the accuracy seemed as good as the pistol. The magazine size might be realistic compared to a real weapon but in the game it seems far too large as you can instakill about 50-60 monsters on the same magazine (this was with rune).

I hadn't played LCA without replacer for a longtime before 1.5.9 was released, I think the best solution is to somehow integrate replacer into LCA - short of that I'm not against the idea of dividing the runes into seperate things and/or lowering the 2x damage factor. But nerfing the rune(s) too much would also lower the fun factor I think.

I kinda disagree with the idea that some monsters are super hard to kill, unless we're talking about the leg sentients or true leg cardinal .. these are the only two things I have trouble killing now
I actually fixed that issue when you have a rune and the sphere. I'll test the damage and see if I need to do the same thing. As for the LMG, I forgot something with the accuracy so It's only bad if you hold the trigger. As for incorporating replacer into LCA I won't do that. I have a lot of people that don't like replacer and the main one is part of my team. As for the rune idea I'm still deciding, the replies have been somewhat equal with yes and no.
Doomenator wrote:But there is another problem. The sound volume is greatly enhanced if the same sounds played simultaneously.
For example: IceImp around attack, FreezerBehemoth attack, FreezerRifle fire, (SHARDS1B, FROSTY2 sounds). I reset this sounds, but FreezerBehemoth no have some sounds for attack, so it looks silent. Need to fix actors.
If I'm not mistaken this is a very old bug. But the mod makers still duplicate it in the mods.

A temporary solution: I replaced the sound SHARDS1B and made quieter to -12dB.
Ah I see, so it seems like this needs to be done inside both mods rather than a separate addon. Probably won't happen then since Daedalus doesn't update Complex Doom anymore unless I'm missing something here.
ForrestMarkX wrote:Check out Complex LCA Opt, I added a change to the Legendary Rune you can use. Instead of changing the global damagefactor I change the damagefactor of a few certain damagetypes to 1.5x and etc
Sure thing, by the sound of it that doesn't seem like a half bad idea.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#438

Post by Doomenator » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:50 pm

ForrestMarkX wrote:Get me a list of the sounds that are messed up and I'll do it then
Sorry, but grandmother Vanga forgot to tell about it. You will need independently to check all the sounds to make such a list. In addition you will need to determine in practice how much to reduce each sound. :happyface:

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#439

Post by Untitled » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:41 pm

You can 'cheat' with a damage factor increase, by only 'excepting' certain damage types.

I did this a while back for one of my mods; the 'Quad Damage' makes MOST weapons 4X, but on a few specific weapons, it only raises to 3X or even 2X.

So what you can make Leg Rune do is make you do double damage on everything EXCEPT the leg weapons, and the devastator and that kind of stuff.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#440

Post by Twinkletwats » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:57 pm

Untitled wrote:You can 'cheat' with a damage factor increase, by only 'excepting' certain damage types.

I did this a while back for one of my mods; the 'Quad Damage' makes MOST weapons 4X, but on a few specific weapons, it only raises to 3X or even 2X.

So what you can make Leg Rune do is make you do double damage on everything EXCEPT the leg weapons, and the devastator and that kind of stuff.
I actually like this idea. This wouldn't require any nerfs for any high-tier enemies, because you can't hurt them with legendary weapons anyways.
The change from legendary ak-47 to legendary lmg was a significant buff to legendary weapons overall, and this type of change would balance that in a sense.
The only issue I think this brings forth is that ammo will become an issue, so maybe you could bring the legendary ammo given by backpacks to pre-1.5.9 levels. Or don't, making players have to be more selective when choosing to use legendary weapons.

Also, before I forget, I found another bug. An issue that was pointed out in 1.5.8 was that the golden homing projectiles used by the legendary behemoth lasted excessively long. Last night I managed to get a true legendary cardinal to spawn, and I'm not sure if it was him or a legendary behemoth that he spawned, but those projectiles were back and this time they simply never disappeared. Not only is it OP, but the sound effects of them getting stuck in a corner is pretty jarring.

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