Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#41

Post by Echo » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:32 pm

Torr Samaho wrote: Changing the renderer breaks saves? And instead of fixing this, the menu entry was removed? And you can still break your saves with the CVAR vid_renderer?
The saves themselves didn't "break" per se, but a game saved when using one renderer wouldn't be able to load when using the other renderer, and the game would instead crash out. Switching back to the renderer used when saving however would allow them to be re-loaded.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#42

Post by Blzut3 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:28 pm

Torr Samaho wrote: And instead of fixing this, the menu entry was removed?
As stated above it's due to different renderer structures being saved/loaded. Feel free to fix it if you can figure out a way to. From what I understand it's not a "just" and I really don't care enough about the OpenGL renderer to even look into it.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#43

Post by Ænima » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:52 pm

Why do savegames even include information about the renderer? I thought they were just supposed to save stuff like positions, pointers, actor and script states, etc?
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#44

Post by Torr Samaho » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:55 pm

Blzut3 wrote: As stated above it's due to different renderer structures being saved/loaded. Feel free to fix it if you can figure out a way to. From what I understand it's not a "just" and I really don't care enough about the OpenGL renderer to even look into it.
IMHO removing the menu entry for "vid_renderer" as reaction to this is weird. If technical reasons prevent loading a save made with another renderer, why not simply refuse to load it with a proper error message? Save games that can't be loaded for other reasons (made with an older version) are also properly rejected.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#45

Post by President People » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:56 pm

Blzut3 wrote:As stated above it's due to different renderer structures being saved/loaded.
Is there any way to detect what renderer a save file was created under? On the Load Game list, could it be grayed out, or marked with a warning message or icon?
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#46

Post by Catastrophe » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:11 pm

Blzut3 wrote:
Torr Samaho wrote: And instead of fixing this, the menu entry was removed?
As stated above it's due to different renderer structures being saved/loaded. Feel free to fix it if you can figure out a way to. From what I understand it's not a "just" and I really don't care enough about the OpenGL renderer to even look into it.
Considering the results of this poll something should be done... no?
Last edited by Catastrophe on Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#47

Post by FascistCat » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:36 pm

WaTaKiD wrote: in 3.0, the announcer option was moved from player setup to the sound options menu

also, FascistCat: if possible could u provide links to the wads u mentioned? i would like to expand upon http://pastebin.com/BuQbN0S9
Sure thing:

http://www.[bad site]/download?file=hacx2.0.wad
http://www.[bad site]/download?file= ... ll_1.3.pk3
http://www.[bad site]/download?file= ... _final.pk3
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#48

Post by WaTaKiD » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:56 pm

FascistCat: ive added them to my pastebin, thank you (btw ur hacx link has a typo, but ive corrected it in my pastebin)

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#49

Post by Blzut3 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:35 pm

Torr Samaho wrote: IMHO removing the menu entry for "vid_renderer" as reaction to this is weird. If technical reasons prevent loading a save made with another renderer, why not simply refuse to load it with a proper error message? Save games that can't be loaded for other reasons (made with an older version) are also properly rejected.
Also consider that running the software renderer in GZDoom has become more redundant now than before as ZDoom has fragglescript, 3D floors, and recently became able to ignore the extra GZDoom things. Whatever simple solution you come up with, I'm sure removing the menu option to change renderers was simpler. The engine needs to be restarted for it to change anyway.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#50

Post by Ivan » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:18 am

Catastrophe wrote:
Blzut3 wrote:
Torr Samaho wrote: And instead of fixing this, the menu entry was removed?
As stated above it's due to different renderer structures being saved/loaded. Feel free to fix it if you can figure out a way to. From what I understand it's not a "just" and I really don't care enough about the OpenGL renderer to even look into it.
Considering the results of this poll something should be done... no?
Uh yeah, it's not worth doing anything about because the majority of the community uses OpenGL? That's ridiculous, just say you can't fix it rather than you won't even "bother" looking at it, that's just disrespectful.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#51

Post by Ænima » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:51 am

I mean honestly I don't think that savegames breaking across renderers is that big of a deal. I'm not all that bent up just because I started playing through BTSX in software and am now forced to play it from there using software. I'll just pistol start the next map with OpenGL. I think I'll manage.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#52

Post by DevilHunter » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:42 am

I just looked at the PWO rewrite.. So I assuming there is no Default Values... and/or cvars to set them, unless some weapon mod sets it. Eh.. its not really a big deal for me, I just want to know what happend there. And if I need to get rid of the old PWO stuff in my config.

EDIT: Btw, Upon messing with the PWO sliders, I noticed that any value between 1.1 and 1.9 does not stick.. Is there a reason behind that?? Seems that only 1-10 stick.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#53

Post by Blzut3 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:27 am

Ivan wrote: That's ridiculous, just say you can't fix it rather than you won't even "bother" looking at it, that's just disrespectful.
I can't tell if this is directed towards me, but it's well known (or at least should be at this point) that I only care about the software renderer.

Anyhow Linux builds are uploaded. Due to a small mishap involving trashing my 10.04 chroot (could fix it, but 10.04 has been EOL'd so I don't see a point), they're now built with 12.04. Thus your distro must now be Ubuntu 12.04 LTS compatible to use. There might be some configuration errors, so let me know if anything is otherwise different.
Last edited by Blzut3 on Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#54

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:47 am

Blzut3 wrote:
Ivan wrote: That's ridiculous, just say you can't fix it rather than you won't even "bother" looking at it, that's just disrespectful.
I can't tell if this is directed towards me, but it's well known (or at least should be at this point) that I only care about the software renderer.
If it wasn't well known, it surely is now considering it was a big 'F-U' to OGL users when the menu option was removed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Btw, Upon messing with the PWO sliders, I noticed that any value between 1.1 and 1.9 does not stick.. Is there a reason behind that?? Seems that only 1-10 stick.
It might be an oversight considering the menu appears to accept floating point values.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#55

Post by Blzut3 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:49 am

Ru5tK1ng wrote: If it wasn't well known, it surely is now considering it was a big 'F-U' to OGL users when the menu option was removed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
How is GZDoom removing the option to switch the software renderer through the menu a big "F-U" to OpenGL users? If anything it's the opposite. In any case the whole point was GZDoom removed it intentionally for one reason or another and Zandronum should restore it.

But in any case the reason my opinion should have been known is it took the Mac version a long time to get OpenGL support (it has it now thanks to Alexey Lysiuk) since I couldn't be bothered to learn OpenGL programming to maintain something I have no interest in. My GZDoom contributions I think consist entirely of a small fix for Linux compilation. I'm one of the people who feel that Doom should be played using the original renderer.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#56

Post by Razgriz » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:41 am

The fact that you said it took a long time for the MAC version to get OGL support paints a whole different picture to everyone, and that picture does not include your opinion anywhere in it from an outsiders perspective.

Also it's nice and all that you feel that Doom should be played using the original renderer, that great, but majority of Developers are pretty much servants of the player base, everything is to help the port and the players. What you feel in this case is definitely not what the player base feels when it comes to OGL. In terms of software, perhaps it's time to fix it up so we software users can see see stuff like 3d slopes? That would be great, in fact it would be amazing.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#57

Post by Torr Samaho » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:59 am

Don't shoot the messenger. Blzut3 is just telling us why GZDoom removed the entry and of course it's important to know this, so we know what needs to be done to bring it back.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#58

Post by DevilHunter » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:29 am

Hmm well.. after a bit of cursing and what not.. I finally got Armada converted to 3.0.. given that things might be a bit meh, and the Server itself is limited on CPU Power/RAM.. so yea..

If you need any configs changed... (I'm sure you will, as Tiger has the settings all oldschool'ish...) Send me a pm or find me on IRC, and I will get around to it. (I have been busy lately, and well, if I can find someone that I can trust to take care of things there, Then yea...)

Also note that I can change the mods up a bit but.. Do remember, Armada IS limited on CPU Power/RAM.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#59

Post by ibm5155 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:07 pm

Zandronum will be the first game/port that I ever heard that a software savegame doesn't work in opengl (and vice versa)...
May be a dumb question, but, did save games ever worked across zdoom/gzdoom platform?

Well, I'm gonna read more the post to understand why the heck you cant load into a differente render, for me it's just nonsence, you will need to load the bsp map anyway in both cases, and load the sprites/models anyway.

EDIT: Remove software render and problem solved :evil: :razz: (But that would break the point of zandronum, the best multiplayer port that support software render AND opengl.

EDIT 2: Can we have that cool feature that skulltag had that would allow us to change the render ingame (no need to restart)?
Last edited by ibm5155 on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#60

Post by Ivan » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:12 pm

I'm curious now, why is the renderer information breaking the save games? Or is it even important to save this? When I think about it it shouldn't make a difference.
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