Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#21

Post by FascistCat » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:20 am

Tested Project Brutality, Hacx 2.0, DOOM: The Golden Souls, Project MSX, Complex DooM. No major problems detected (at least in sp).

However I can't find the announcer option anywhere, it got moved somewhere else maybe?

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#22

Post by WaTaKiD » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 am

in 3.0, the announcer option was moved from player setup to the sound options menu

also, FascistCat: if possible could u provide links to the wads u mentioned? i would like to expand upon http://pastebin.com/BuQbN0S9
Last edited by WaTaKiD on Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#23

Post by Ænima » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:37 am

Ultimate Freedoomer wrote:
Ænima wrote:
Ultimate Freedoomer wrote:How about this:
  • finished implementation of vanilla compatibility (I mean all of the following: partial emulation of a DOS machine's address space, emulation of behavior of x86-specific mathematical or logical operations, and overflow emulation based on reverse engineering of the segment layouts of the original games' executable files in order to attain as close to 100% compatibility as is possible. This includes syncing of vanilla demos, and the port being adjusted if one is found which does not sync.) instead of just being able to play the vanilla WADS
  • Finished Boom compatibility implementation
  • EDGE-type RTS scripting
  • XG scripting (Like in Doomsday)
  • SCP scripting & DED support (like in RISEN3D)
  • InFine scripting (like in Risen3D & Doomsday)
  • DEHSUPP support (like Zdaemon)
  • DEHACKED support (like ReMood & Chocolate Doom)
  • DDF & COAL support (like EDGE)
  • EDF support (like Eternity)
As you might have guessed, my goal with the above features is compatibility that PWADS that pretty much require full vanilla compatibility, as well as mods that currently aren't compatible with the ZDoom family.
1. As Sean said, those are not things which the Zandro devs would likely undertake, they'd be better suggested over at ZDoom and (eventually) backported here.

2. You know DEHACKED and DEHSUPP have been supported forever, right?

3. What would we have to gain by going through all the effort of porting the script languages of other ports like Doomsday, Risen, and EDGE? Are there really that many Doomsday mods out there that Zandronum players NEED to play on Zandronum? Not to mention the gigantic netcode differences between ports which might cause headaches when porting source code for different script languages.


tl;dr if those mods weren't made for Zandro then it shouldn't be our problem, play them on the port they were meant for.
To answer question 2, I was under the impression that Zandronum's DEHACKED & DEHSUPP support was removed with the introduction of DECORATE. Forgive me for that mistake. As for points 1 & 3, implementing those scripting languages would basically allow Zandronum (which is already the most advanced port in regards to non-vanilla stuff as far as I'm concerned) to be "the definitive source port" by being able to play every mod/PWAD EVER, thus meaning people won't have to worry about downloading 10 source ports just so every mod/PWAD they have will be compatible with at least 1 of their ports of choice. I'm not being literal about "10 ports", it could just feel that way sometimes. There are many mods I wanted to use with a ZDoom port (mostly because of the ALTHUD) but couldn't because of incompatible scripting (such as the Doom 64 EX Doom 64 wad). The Steam release of Strife: Quest for the Sigil was 1 such thing. & yes, I use source-ports with Steam in the "proper" way of doing so. Also, if anyone wants to hear them, I have some ideas for revamping the ALTHUD.
You're still missing the point. That's hours upon days upon weeks of work, not to mention months of upkeep, all for your fantasy of making Zandronum the Doom Port Master Race. The developers have much more pressing tasks to focus on. Nobody's crying because they can't play Blackfish's 2005 Counterstrike EDGE mod on Zandronum. If you REALLY want to play one of those mods, why can't you play it on its intended port and use an external network tunnel program (like Hamachi) if necessary for multiplayer?

This isn't a for-profit game, there's no money to be made by monopolizing the Doom source port community. It's just more work.


You're always free to read up on the Zandro source code and compile your own fork if you really want to see how difficult of a task you're proposing.
Last edited by Ænima on Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#24

Post by Ultimate Freedoomer » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:49 am

I'm a DECORATE coder, not a C programmer. Forgive me for not realizing how daunting that would be. On what would probably (or at least hopefully) be an easier note because it's just fixing existing code & not implementing entirely new features, Here's a mockup of my proposal for an ALTHUD revamp in case anyone wants to see it. Forgive me not just posting it on the forum, I don't know how to scale images here. & for the record, when I say "Source porting Steam Doom the right way", I mean deleting the DOSBOX executable in the Steam folder, copy-pasting the source port folders directly into the Steam Doom install folder, renaming the source port's executable to "dosbox.exe", & (in the event of only 1 IWAD) setting the IWAD in the Steam folder as the default IWAD. I know that wasn't relevant, & forgive me, I was just clearing up what I meant by "the right way" in case anybody was confused.
Last edited by Ultimate Freedoomer on Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#25

Post by TerminusEst13 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:55 am

To be perfectly blunt, this HUD is a monstrosity.
It takes up far too much space on the screen, contains a wide host of completely irrelevant information, and guarantees an inability to scale down to lower resolutions.

I can safely say this HUD has absolutely no chance of ever being included, and if someone ever did take the chance of working on coding it in to include it, it would never be used.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#26

Post by Ultimate Freedoomer » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:26 am

TerminusEst13 wrote:
To be perfectly blunt, this HUD is a monstrosity.
It takes up far too much space on the screen, contains a wide host of completely irrelevant information, and guarantees an inability to scale down to lower resolutions.

I can safely say this HUD has absolutely no chance of ever being included, and if someone ever did take the chance of working on coding it in to include it, it would never be used.
Well, the screen space issue is just part of the mockup (the text is just in the mockup to clarify what the table sections mean. Also, the HUD won't be a table layout when finished. It's just like that in the mockup so everything's organized). The small text is just so everything would fit on the picture. Obviously, it wouldn't show every armor/health icon at once. I was thinking 1 day, "the only problems with the ALTHUD are a laughably clunky method of handling magazine counters & the lack of a player face", & ended up with this. Also, the image is outdated. That's why there's some inconsistencies with the image & what's said in the description in regards to the weapon display, & why some stuff is mentioned that wasn't implemented in the image. I basically ended up coming up with a hybrid of the ALTHUD & the alpha helmet HUD (hence the weapon stats display & the auto map preview, which someone actually made as a ZDOOM attachment once.). I might post a mockup meant to represent a finished version as it would look in-game if I get access to a working computer (mine broke its video card)

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#27

Post by Lord Smash » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:53 am

Ultimate Freedoomer wrote: "the only problems with the ALTHUD are a laughably clunky method of handling magazine counters & the lack of a player face"
Ultimate Freedoomer wrote: "handling magazine counters"
Ultimate Freedoomer wrote: magazine counters
I...uh...what

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#28

Post by Ultimate Freedoomer » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:23 am

Lord Smash wrote:
Ultimate Freedoomer wrote:"the only problems with the ALTHUD are a laughably clunky method of handling magazine counters & the lack of a player face"
Ultimate Freedoomer wrote:"handling magazine counters"
Ultimate Freedoomer wrote:magazine counters
I...uh...what
Some mods (key word being "mods") use a reload mechanic. The problem is that the magazine counters in such mods (as opposed to being consolidated to the weapon select icons) are sandwiched between reserve pools. As a result, the counters show regardless of whether you have that weapon or not. Part of my suggestion to fix that is to make it so that the ALTHUD now has scripts to automatically detect such things in a mod & put the magazine counter in the icon that represents the weapon's presence in your inventory.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#29

Post by Ænima » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:53 am

Ultimate Freedoomer wrote:Part of my suggestion to fix that is to make it so that the ALTHUD now has scripts to automatically detect such things in a mod & put the magazine counter in the icon that represents the weapon's presence in your inventory.
All ammo types are treated the same by the althud regardless of how they're used in the mod. And please elaborate on these "scripts that will automatically detect such things in a mod". How? Keep in mind that a HUD only has access to ingame information such as inventory, kills, and health. You can't expect it to comb through the entirety of your mod's DECORATE looking for which weapons use AmmoType2 (which would also break the HUD for mods that dont use reloading) under the assumption that all weapons with 2 ammotypes are reloading weapons. A HUD simply cannot do that.


Also this is where you should make any future suggestions:
https://zandronum.com/tracker
Last edited by Ænima on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#30

Post by Ultimate Freedoomer » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:32 am

At the very least, maybe make it so the mag counters (in the event that the mod takes the ALTHUD into account by using the "althudcf" feature. In retrospect, I didn't take weapons that use secondary ammo without a reload into account. Thanks for clarifying that. Then again, I've yet to see a mod that reloads both fire modes when they use separate ammo from each other) appear on the select icons when they are configured by the modder to work within the ALTHUD, & make it so there is a player face in the ALTHUD. & I tried using the tracker reports, but I have no idea where to go in the tracker list in regards to feature suggestions. Until that "in-game" mockup that I'm working on is done, I'm out. See ya tomorrow, fellow warriors.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#31

Post by Ænima » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:15 am

Ultimate Freedoomer wrote: & I tried using the tracker reports, but I have no idea where to go in the tracker list in regards to feature suggestions.
Click "Report Issue". Then select "Zandronum". Then change the first field to "Suggestion" in the drop-down box.
Image


But if you're making any suggestions regarding GZDoom's althud youre really better off asking over at GZDoom. I can't foresee the Zandro developers touching it at all, especially for what you're asking. I doubt the GZ devs would consider such a change either. A better suggestion would be a DECORATE flag like +HIDEFROMALTHUD for ammo and inventory actor definitions so that modders can at least ensure that the althud is uncluttered with "magazine" ammo counts in their own mod.

You're really better off making your own HUD with SBARINFO and trying to make it look as close to your "mockup" as possible, rather than requesting that the devs potentially break compatibility with GZDoom in order to force your mockup on everyone else.
Last edited by Ænima on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#32

Post by fr blood » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:05 am

I've a question, would it be possible to add some stuff from GZDoom 2.1 even knowing we are actually reaching 1.8 ?

You guys know the "MTHRUSPECIES" flag that works only for projectiles, I've heard that it works also with bullets in GZDoom 2.1 so I would like to know if you could add this option without reaching this version. This thing would help a lot in multiplayer for example Complex Doom where it's annoying to be able to shoot thru players only with projectil weapons.

That's a request if you already have too much stuff to do then just forget it.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#33

Post by Echo » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:02 pm

Ultimate Freedoomer wrote: ridiculous list
You're out of your fucking tiny mind. Are you the sort to wander into a Mexican restaurant and start ordering Chinese food? Because that's what this list is like.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#34

Post by Ænima » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:34 pm

Echo wrote:
Ultimate Freedoomer wrote: ridiculous list
You're out of your fucking tiny mind. Are you the sort to wander into a Mexican restaurant and start ordering Chinese food? Because that's what this list is like.
Hey, there's no need to be hostile, he's just a young, handsome lad with trainloads worth of creative energy. He can't help it.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#35

Post by Torr Samaho » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:04 pm

Revilution wrote: Tested it right now with Hunter's Moon for GZDoom, it works everything fine, however on the maps i'm making for it, the UDMF still seems to be a bit outdated or buggy yet, i used the scaling on textures directly on lines and that still provide some visual glitches.
Can you check whether it works in GZDoom 1.8.6? This way we know whether it is/was a GZDoom bug or if something went wrong during the upgrade.
DevilHunter wrote: I asked if the render switch was ever gonna make it back in video options but didn't get a response.
IMO such an option definitely should be in the menu. Did GZDoom intentionally remove it?
DevilHunter wrote: EDIT: I know Imma be a pain for asking this but... Is there no more cvar or way to set PWO in configs anymore? I just looked at it, and all the PWO sliders are set to 0.0.
The menu should allow you to configure the PWO settings if you select PWO for weapon switching.
fr blood wrote: I've a question, would it be possible to add some stuff from GZDoom 2.1 even knowing we are actually reaching 1.8 ?
It's possible and I'm sure we'll need to add (G)ZDoom fixes that were made after GZDoom 1.8.6 to get 3.0 in a state stable enough for a release. Adding newer features is also possible, but we should do so only in extraordinary cases. Right now my main goal is to make all the ZDoom stuff that just ended up in Zandronum work properly.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#36

Post by Echo » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:22 pm

Ænima wrote: Hey, there's no need to be hostile, he's just a young, handsome lad with trainloads worth of creative energy. He can't help it.
Died laughing. Oh fuck.
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#37

Post by Zalewa » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:51 pm

This alpha build has a backport of a crash from GZDoom. Since you're planning to backport more fixes from GZDoom, I suppose this isn't an issue, but I reported it anyway:
http://zandronum.com/tracker/view.php?id=2412
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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#38

Post by Blzut3 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:07 pm

Torr Samaho wrote: IMO such an option definitely should be in the menu. Did GZDoom intentionally remove it?
Yes. IIRC it was confusing people since changing the renderer broke saves or some other minor detail like that.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#39

Post by DevilHunter » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:28 pm

Torr Samaho wrote:
DevilHunter wrote: EDIT: I know Imma be a pain for asking this but... Is there no more cvar or way to set PWO in configs anymore? I just looked at it, and all the PWO sliders are set to 0.0.
The menu should allow you to configure the PWO settings if you select PWO for weapon switching.
Well, what I mean was... I had the default PWO values bound in my config like so...

Code: Select all

// Normal Doom Weapons  ---

PWO.Doom.Fist "0.1"
PWO.Doom.Chainsaw "0.2"
PWO.Doom.Pistol "0.3"
PWO.Doom.Shotgun "0.8"
PWO.Doom.SuperShotgun "0.9"
PWO.Doom.Chaingun "0.4"
PWO.Doom.RocketLauncher "0.5"
PWO.Doom.PlasmaRifle "0.6"
PWO.Doom.BFG9000 "0.7"

// Skulltag Weapons  ---

PWO.Doom.Railgun "0.55"
PWO.Doom.BFG10K "0.75"
PWO.Doom.Minigun "0.85"
PWO.Doom.GrenadeLauncher "0.45"
But now all of those are gone. So does this mean, any mod can set there own values or something?

EDIT: Just now noticed that I cannot move the sliders at all.
Last edited by DevilHunter on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Zandronum 3.0-alpha-150819-2351

#40

Post by Torr Samaho » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:48 pm

Zalewa wrote: This alpha build has a backport of a crash from GZDoom. Since you're planning to backport more fixes from GZDoom, I suppose this isn't an issue, but I reported it anyway:
http://zandronum.com/tracker/view.php?id=2412
Thanks! We need to know which post GZDoom 1.8.6 fixes should be backported, so having that ticket is very helpful.
Blzut3 wrote: Yes. IIRC it was confusing people since changing the renderer broke saves or some other minor detail like that.
Changing the renderer breaks saves? And instead of fixing this, the menu entry was removed? And you can still break your saves with the CVAR vid_renderer?
DevilHunter wrote: But now all of those are gone. So does this mean, any mod can set there own values or something?
Dusk rewrote PWO for 3.0. See the PWO rewrite ticket for more details.
DevilHunter wrote: EDIT: Just now noticed that I cannot move the sliders at all.
The silders are locked unless you set "Switch on pickup" to "Use PWO".
Last edited by Torr Samaho on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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