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Post: #1 - Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 11:41 AM
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I want to make things clear before anything starts up. I will avoid mentioning names, groups and associations, avoid personal insults, and intentional trolling. If this post is locked for trolling, flaming, or drama in general, it should be evident that certain administrators cannot handle such a thread, or are simply unwilling to. At the same time, please do not take the criticisms that I will bring up as a personal attack. I do not have any personal problems with the staff at this time. That being said, let’s rock.

I want to say that I love Zandronum as a port. I believe it is the most solid port at this particular point in time, and I have many fond memories of playing, and meeting people here. Lately I have not been able to play often, due to multiple factors IRL, but also just as importantly the current state of Zandronum’s servers has not given me inclination to play. Although I am not afraid to admit that this feeling of not wanting to play is partly my fault, I feel the servers have become quite a hostile environment, but I will get to this later.

Despite these things, there is a very high probability I will be banned for this post, even though I am going to do my best to remain focused and not give any excuse to do so. Where might I get this impression you ask? Let’s begin the first point, because that’s where I get this impression.
Everybody is aware of the Brutal Doom Suicide Encouragement thread that was posted a few days ago. http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3484 this is the thread in question. In this thread it was exposed that Sgt Mark IV is not only a misogynist, but also a racist, a nazi-sympathizer, and asshole. Okay Decay, but what does that have to do with anything? Well, I was in fact warned for that thread after the lock happened, 2 points. Why does this matter? In a pm received to explain the warning, the author stated that said warning was not to discourage me from making further threads, nor to punish me. I was also asked to inform staff before making a similar thread. If I understand correctly, I was warned for jeopardizing the community reputation. There are many problems with this, but let’s begin with the most obvious fact. Only mods can see my warning level; the point of the warning, implicit or not, is always to dissuade me from making a similar post. If I do, I risk being banned. So is it really not for discouragement or what? The second glaring point is the need for approval for posting a similar topic. Seriously? How is this NOT a form of subtle censorship? If you need to ask permission for such a thing, that can’t be a good state of affairs.

What does this indicate? An administration unwilling to handle important issues, except for a few here and there. Staff are supposed to be the leaders, preferably community picked. Instead we have arbitrarily assigned administrators who are quick to be judge, jury, and executioner. Who posted from staff in the BD thread? Just Infurnus. The other staff should’ve made their opinions more well known. These so-called “divisive” community issues are where we find out who people are really made of, what they can or cannot handle. It seems most of the staff were unwilling to try. But I understand the politics of not doing so.

Onward, today another member was g-lined from IRC. Now, I’m not going to be defending the actions of this individual because I don’t know all the contexts or logs, but there is a trend of arbitrary bans being handed out for little to no reason other than general nuisance. Normally I would not find this an issue, however, there are many members on IRC and the forums itself that are a continual nuisance and general travesty. Different punishments for different people, and this has always been a problem with administration. It is very selective and subjective, and yes I know mods cannot be objective, but it is overly so. How is it that certain members that continually have nothing of substance to contribute are ritually ignored or have no action taken against them?

There is a rule that forbids speaking on behalf of banned players. This rule is ridiculous. It is a censorship, another indication of unwillingness to deal with quasi-difficult issues. For example, we have here nub_hat posting on behalf of capo to advertise a tournament, because capo is banned. Without warning, nub_hat was instantly banned, and was unbanned only after much discussed. Similarly, I cannot voice concerns for my fellow banned members, lest I get banned myself. There is no logic to this, and it is rather tyrannical.
How is it that a certain group, who has also ritually proven to be a bad omen for the port, still manages to remain free despite their continued shenanigans and hostile intent? How is it that players who feign wanting to help, degrade new players, lie and cheat their way out of being banned continually? There are serious issues of conflicts of interest going on in administration. For those of us who actively try to expose this behaviour, we are cut off. Those of us, who have a sincere wish to make the port we once loved back to the way it was, are prevented from doing so. The only option left is to abandon the community, but we know this is in vain.
Dissident administration is also demoted or removed from staff. I have been witness to several instances of this. Staff is also typically chosen with favour given not to those with good judgement, but to those who can be controlled or have no real opinions of their own. This is not a way to run a “community centered” port.

How can staff claim transparency? So long as there remains a private staff forum, there will never be the true transparency that is claimed by staff. Reforms are not usually met with reception, and many important threads are locked or hidden away.

In the end, the administrators are good with the small things. The forums have been uneventful, but smooth. But when it comes to important things, usually there is a flounder. Serious reforms are needed, but these are probably only viable under new administration, which is also not likely to happen. As a result, the decline of zandronum itself is undoubtedly on the horizon.

Anonymous
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The subtle nepotism manifests the more involved a player becomes. The wake in which particular antics are committed in the past are grossly overlooked as the administration’s tendrils seep through the veneer of the competitive scene. No group in particular will not be mentioned but those observing can easily make connotations based on repeated pattern of behaviour pre-2009 and onward.

The division of recent illustrations the subterfuge and blatant sabotage at large, and the corruption aligned are tantamount with particular interest groups has only fostered the silent war between deepening rivalry. I refer to the monolithic collusion of power amassed by one of these rivalling groups, and the swapping of these members only prove the relationship is amorphous and abstract. When one entire clan is allowed to garner administration and commit shenanigans such as harassment, “internet investigations”, log profiling, and identification fraud at the expense of others but likewise antics are not permissible by the binary other halve than it becomes incredibly clear how slanted the situation is.

The circumstances is only dire when punishment is not distributed equally nor elaborated on, and only the avatar of said administration could provide ambiguous information only highlights a troubling proxy organization within. The opinions espoused by community members do not warrant their removal likewise nor is the exposure of factual information of public domain. The manipulation of personal information on public revenues (youtube) has not gone prohibited, but the slight on another group is then penalized to maximum efficiency.

I have witness the corruption manifest before me and my distaste for deceit. When one group is allowed license to invade games, grief players, and generally cause mischief without checks or balance because of their pull deters cohesion in the community. There is no longer consistency. You will never see transparency, because it belongs to them, by right, or virtue of their authority alone. The furtive allure replaced by the only opaque levels of near forceful dissuasion by personas that hide behind the ruse of swapped gender identification, moderator intervention, and even death threats that only go unanswered unless arms are twisted.

All set by the bloated corpse of the old guard. No longer satisfied by the death and ruin of their former hovel, now come to adopt the mannerisms of their predecessors that alienated themselves in self destruction and these powers are your rulers. I stress reform, but bureaucracy merely postpones the inevitable harsh merkwelt many of us feel belongs to this community. The only transparency we have is one sided favouritism, unanswered questions, and eventually ennui beset.


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Watermelon
Post: #2 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:Staff are supposed to be the leaders, preferably community picked.
I agree

Quote:Different punishments for different people

This is a MAJOR problem with the administration.
I won't name names, but there's people who hack and get banned.
There're people who have hacked and banned but get unbanned, whereas others stay banned.
There's people who hack once, go into the staff channel and ask to get unbanned and are unbanned and told not to do it again.
There's people who get deals under the table to play under alias and won't get bothered.

While I am in support of less totalitarian ban-everything-kilgore admins that seem to be dominating the scene, I do support when a certain admin gives peoples deals under the table because that particular admin is at least trying to get people back into the game; rather than keeping people locked out. Of course this is not fair and this is just masks the problem.

There needs to be a fair set of rules. Anyone who is against this is obviously part of the problem or someone seeking intentional discord.

Quote:How is it that a certain group, who has also ritually proven to be a bad omen for the port, still manages to remain free despite their continued shenanigans and hostile intent?

For anyone who doesn't understand this point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Quote:So long as there remains a private staff forum, there will never be the true transparency that is claimed by staff

In addition, a private staff and private admin channel, and who knows what else in the background...
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2013 11:45 AM by Watermelon.)
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Ru5tK1ng
Post: #3 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 11:51 AM
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Time and time again I've noticed during my short tenure on Zandronum, the staff's credibility is consistently being questioned publicly every now and then. Perhaps if the community is unhappy with the way the staff handles PR, then maybe the option of staff reformation should be considered. Community picked staff? I'm not too sure about that one, however something should possibly be done.
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A3 Hammerfest-
Post: #4 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 11:53 AM
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(09-24-2013 11:51 AM)Ru5tK1ng Wrote:  Time and time again I've noticed during my short tenure on Zandronum, the staff's credibility is consistently being questioned publicly every now and then. Perhaps if the community is unhappy with the way the staff handles PR, then maybe the option of staff reformation should be considered. Community picked staff? I'm not too sure about that one, however something should possibly be done.

Staff leaders should be community picked, however they should be people who are competent and understand what's going on within multiple areas (Competitive, development, community related issues, etc.) A lot of staff that actually did something back before Skulltag had initiated the fork either had been dropped or had been demoted to reserve moderators, while other staff that really had little influence had been given an opportunity to stick around. This first 'staff reform' was really a downgrade of what the staff had that made it efficient and kept forums nice and clean, but at the end of the day the decision was left to the admins and certain mods. Staff today is very disorganized, and I would like to point out that yes, a lot of decisions and moves that staff had made is very questionable. My best recommendation? Another staff reform, but not just a little simple demotions and drops, a serious reform should be considered at this point.


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Combinebobnt
Post: #5 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 11:54 AM
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I remember a post long time ago talked about having staff uninvolved in the community, basically acting like a court of judges to eliminate bias as best as possible. Maybe something like that would work



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Samurai
Post: #6 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 11:56 AM
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I think staff reforms have been long awaited, some people here are clearly out of their depth.



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02:14  <Zakken>    SwiftShot
02:14  <Zakken>    Translate what
02:15  <Zakken>    This is Spanish, not Portuguese
02:15  <Zakken>    But I'll try
02:15  <HeavenWraith>    fucking third world aborigen, shut up and get to work
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Hypnotoad
Post: #7 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:05 PM
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(09-24-2013 11:56 AM)Samurai Wrote:  I think staff reforms have been long awaited, some people here are clearly out of their depth.

I can agree with this.

P.S. I don't understand the need for that overly verbose addendum; it seems to be repeating what was already just said.


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Reach Term
Post: #8 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:10 PM
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Hi, just here to psot this as this is related to the thread:

http://skulltagleaks.wordpress.com/

In a neutral opinion, something like this should've happen again.
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<PRO> Cyber'
Post: #9 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:11 PM
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So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.


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Combinebobnt
Post: #10 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:14 PM
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If a staff reform actually happens, it could be a democratic vote from the people with nominees suggested and reasons why to avoid bias



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Catastrophe
Post: #11 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:15 PM
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(09-24-2013 12:11 PM)Cyber Wrote:  So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.

Jenova and Ru5tKing

Jenova - He is actually pretty reasonable with his decisions when it comes to moderation. Proof? Look at best-ever's administratorship, it's pretty good.

Ru5tKing - I think he's the most fair person in this port. He isn't biased and knows when to talk when something is out of line.

EDIT: On top of that lets remember the time when two people almost got master banned for posting a comment on youtube; something completely out of their jurisdiction: http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1944


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(This post was last modified: 09-24-2013 12:23 PM by Catastrophe.)
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Samurai
Post: #12 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:17 PM
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Decay, but like that would ever happen

I would like to see the admin team focused more around Dynamo, and Razgriz, aswell as getting rid of a lot of the old staff who do nothing



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02:14  <Zakken>    SwiftShot
02:14  <Zakken>    Translate what
02:15  <Zakken>    This is Spanish, not Portuguese
02:15  <Zakken>    But I'll try
02:15  <HeavenWraith>    fucking third world aborigen, shut up and get to work
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Hypnotoad
Post: #13 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:17 PM
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(09-24-2013 12:11 PM)Cyber Wrote:  So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.

In another forum I was once a part of, when a mass protest of the current administration occurred the mods decided to create a new thread inviting any members to make their case as to why they should be considered as part of the moderation team, where the community was able to vote on their favorite. Of course the moderators still had some discretion over the final pick (as inevitably some troll voting did occur). Something you could consider.


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MXU Decay
Post: #14 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:19 PM
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Personally I would vote for both Razgriz and Dynamo, they are honestly some of the best potential candidates. They are fair and level headed.


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Ru5tK1ng
Post: #15 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:19 PM
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(09-24-2013 12:11 PM)Cyber Wrote:  So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.
I'd say Jenova, (I won't toot my own horn), would make a suitable staff addition considering all the amount of effort, time and money he's contributed towards the community. Best-Ever server clusters are a large part of the zan community and it's quite obvious he cares about Zandronum. He's not a yes man and he's capable of being un-baised when he's on a serious note.
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[UD] infurnus
Post: #16 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:22 PM
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(09-24-2013 12:15 PM)Catastrophe Wrote:  Jenova

Jenova is already in #staff on IRC, so I don't think this is too far from reality

(09-24-2013 12:17 PM)Samurai Wrote:  Decay, but like that would ever happen

I would like to see the admin team focused more around Dynamo, and Razgriz, aswell as getting rid of a lot of the old staff who do nothing

I wanted to downsize the staff group count, for example the Global Moderators and Moderators groups are redundant in terms of raw user privileges. (There's a lot of per-user stuff, for example mifu as a mod for the projects section, etc)

EDIT: Dynamo was a Global Mod but stepped down to regular Mod because of real life stuff and time constraints, if I recall correctly



(This post was last modified: 09-24-2013 12:28 PM by infurnus.)
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A3 Hammerfest-
Post: #17 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:23 PM
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(09-24-2013 12:11 PM)Cyber Wrote:  So then, who do you (the community) think could step up to the plate?
I'm open to suggestions.

I'll bite, and retort what I've previously said.

When Dynamo was a moderator and I was a previously active moderator before the first staff reform, the staff actually had efficiency and people had actually worked hard in to at least appeasing both staff needs and community needs. After the first staff reform, what happened? Dynamo was demoted to a reserve moderator, despite the fact that he actually had some great ideas to boost staff motivation and had actively worked for the community. I was forced to leave my position due to very ridiculous drama that should of been resolved and that I should of actually had support for back when Skulltag was still around. Ironically enough, the same person who initiated the staff reform before Zandronum had disappeared and is not currently with us. Take a guess? Zap610. Although truth be told I had no issues with Zap and I actually liked the guy, the staff reform was a big mistake, throwing out mods that were actually active and involved in competition as well, and those left behind are barely active nowadays, if honestly useful as well.

I for one recommend that Dynamo get a higher position in the staff. He deserves it, and he worked for it. He's been in staff for more than I have and without a doubt he would do a lot for the staff and for the benefit of the community. I won't nominate myself, but I don't see myself moderating the forums at this point because I really wouldn't even have the time, but I would be open to it if I could at least serve at a reserve mod.

Rustking is without a doubt unbiased, and is actually a good representive of the competitive community at this point, both in Zandronum and also has shown maturity on a lot of topics. My vote will go for Rustking as well.


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MLK Qent
Post: #18 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:29 PM
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Dynamo did have a higher position, but he stepped down because he had Real Life issues to attend to.

EDIT: Correction, he didn't step down, but he was not demoted for any difference of opinion.


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Medicris
Post: #19 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:29 PM
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These are very real problems in the current affairs that have been quietly developing for years, and it cannot be swept under the rug any longer if we are to think of the long-term well-being of this port. This community and administration need to work as one to approach any given situation, and to choose the individuals that have the best representation of the community.

Personally, I see a need for less admins in general as a precautionary measure against inflexible bureaucracy getting in the way of judgements, and any possibility of staff members acting as vectors for others (whether conscious of it or not) or simply voting with the majority because they don't have a strong enough opinion on their own (whether conscious of it or not).

EDIT: Seeing as how this thread has progressed, I would just like to point out that I basically just believe some simplifying, restructuring and streamlining of the authority here would be beneficial to the port. The port is not massive, thus I think too many people in authority can get in the way of each other's decisions and progress like in many leaderships I have seen. This isn't Blizzard forums where you're managing hundreds of thousands of members, thus, I don't think a large administration team is the most effective approach, seen from personal experience with similar communities. I don't know what the hell else is going on in this thread.


(This post was last modified: 09-27-2013 10:10 AM by Medicris.)
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Watermelon
Post: #20 - RE: Let's Talk Posted: 09-24-2013, 12:29 PM
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I think we'd be going in the opposite direction, IMO with the abundance of admins there needs to be a reform in the other direction rather than adding more onto this mess.
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